Posts Tagged ‘church

25
Aug
10

How do you feel about the controversy over the mosque at Ground Zero?

For those who may not know about the story: There is a big controversy brewing in the United States right now regarding the possibility of a mosque being built on the former site of the World Trade Center, which was destroyed by terrorists on September 11th, 2001. Some have suggested that since the terrorists were Islamic, this act could be seen as a sort of religious “conquest.”

As it turns out, this is yet another case of the American public having an incorrect view of reality, which has been aided by a news media that isn’t very interested in setting the facts straight (after all, rationality doesn’t sell as much cat food and laundry detergent as outrage does).

Here are some facts on this issue:

1. The “Ground Zero Mosque” isn’t slated to be built at Ground Zero (or, the former site of the World Trade Center). It is two blocks away.

2. The “Ground Zero Mosque” isn’t a stand-alone building, nor is it even a mosque. It will be a prayer room contained in a community center.

3. There is already a mosque built closer to the WTC that no one seems to have any sort of issue with whatsoever.

Now, for my opinion. I’m not comfortable with the government deciding which religions can build  holy sites and which cannot. That act goes against our Constitution. If they were to decide that no religious buildings were permitted at all, then that would be as reasonable as permitting any of them. So if there’s going to be a ban, then they must ban everything – mosques, churches, synagogues, temples, you name it.

A few folks who are much smarter than myself have made some excellent points on this issue. In the New York Times, Dick Cavett had the following to say:

“What other churches might be objectionable because of the horrific acts of some of its members? Maybe we shouldn’t have Christian churches in the South wherever the Ku Klux Klan operated because years ago proclaimed white Christians lynched blacks. How close to Hickam Field, at Pearl Harbor, should a Shinto shrine be allowed? I wonder how many of our young people — notorious, we are told, for their ignorance of American history — would be surprised that Japanese-Americans had lives and livelihoods destroyed when they were rounded up during World War II? Should all World War II service memorials, therefore, be moved away from the sites of these internment camps? Where does one draw the line?”

The only point I would add to Mr. Cavett’s comment is this: The Murrah Building in Oklahoma City was destroyed by Christian terrorists. Are there churches near that site? If so, we should tear them down before we start restricting mosques at Ground Zero.

19
Jan
10

Questions from brucester1959

One commenter, Brucester1959, wrote a rather verbose comment to my post “What is the meaning and purpose to your life?“, and I felt that the entire comment deserved response. There are a lot of questions here that are aimed at atheists frequently, and most of them are questions we have to answer over and over again, because they don’t seem to sink in, for some reason.

Brucester1959’s comments are in bold, and my responses follow. Here goes:

I have never met an Atheist. I am not sure what one is or why.

With all due respect, I doubt that you have never met an atheist. Perhaps you’re not aware of their lack of belief, but I’m fairly certain you know at least one person who is an atheist, unless you know a very limited number of people.

As for what an atheist is: it’s someone who doesn’t believe it any gods. Plain and simple. For more on this, see this earlier post about the definition of atheist.

I come from the Bible belt. The South. I believe what I believe. I’ve never tried to push my beliefs off on anyone else.

I’m going to assume from this, and from other statements you’ve made in this comment, that you’re a Christian. If this is not the case, please correct me.

I am curious though. So maybe you can explain these things to me, so that I can understand it.

Why do Atheists try to change everyone else’s beliefs or try to change our traditions?

This applies to everything I say on this blog (and everywhere else, for that matter): I can only speak for myself, and not the atheist community.

I do not try to change anyone’s beliefs or traditions. I try to give people a reasonable amount of respect in regard to both. There are some beliefs and traditions that need to be changed, and those are the exceptions to this rule – such as the belief some have that their children will be cured of sickness through prayer, rather than medical attention, or the tradition of sentencing homosexuals to death, or any belief or tradition that is so strong, that believers insist on making it into a law that everyone must follow.

(Note that I was careful to say that I give people respect. I don’t believe that ideas deserve the same sort of respect, and should always be open to criticism.)

Other than these types of beliefs and traditions, I let others live as they choose. Abstain from pork, cheeseburgers, or any meat on a Friday. Refuse to turn on lights on a Saturday. Wear special underwear that keeps you pure. Pray while pointing in a certain direction several times a day. Reject a blood transfusion for yourself. It’s all fine with me, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of anyone else.

Just don’t expect me to follow the same rules, or even respect them.

Why does “In God We Trust” on the currency, cause such an uproar amongst Atheist’s, that it prompts them to challenge it in the courts?

Not everyone in our country trusts in a god, and they are within their rights to do so. Currency is issued by the government, and our government should not be establishing one religion over another, as outlined in the First Amendment. Replace the word “God” with Allah, Eris, Krishna, Thor, Zeus, or any of the other 2,500 deities from world history, and you’d be apt to agree with me.

On top of this – “In God We Trust” was not always there – it was added to our currency during the Red Scare, in some sort of attempt to scare Communists away from it. That divisive attitude was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

How could the location of a thing so beautiful, such as a “Nativity Scene” be so repulsive to an Atheist, that it too, prompts court action?

I don’t find nativity scenes repulsive. Some of them are quite pretty. But when they are displayed on state or government property, and/or funded by taxpayer money, and other displays from other faiths (or lack thereof) are not permitted in the same area, that constitutes favoritism of Christianity over other religions. And that is not permitted through the First Amendment.

Replace “nativity scene” with “menorah,” “Ramadan display,” “pentagram,” or “Satanic altar,” and you may understand the issue a little better. If you have no issue with other displays of faith on public property and funded by taxpayer money, then we’re a little closer to agreeing with each other (but not quite all of the way there).

Why is prayer in school so horrible, that it should be denied to everyone, just because an Atheist disagrees with it?

This is a very, very common myth, and one that never seems to go away no matter how much you try to inform people.  Prayer is not banned from schools. There is not a single school in the United States that bans school prayer – many even have prayer and Bible clubs in them. As long as a child is not distracting others or the teacher or disrupting class or any school function, they are permitted to pray in school.

What is not permitted is the endorsement of prayer by the school – the teachers cannot lead students in prayer, teach them how or what to pray, etc. Again, this favors one religion over another, and most people would not allow it if it was a different religion being favored.

Replace “pray” with “chant to the Buddha” in your question, and it may become more clear.

The Supreme Court’s explanation of; “Separation of Church and State” is flawed. The reading of the amendment is crystal clear: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” It simply guarantees that the Government cannot interfere with a person’s religious beliefs. That is all. It has been distorted to the current explanation. Why do Atheist’s use this to deny believers their right to freedom of religion?

Man, that question is SO loaded that I’m afraid it’ll go off at any second. I’m not sure whether to cut the blue wire or the red one…

I’ve mostly answered this question already, but as I said earlier, these things never really sink in, so I’ll give it another go:

First, to disarm that question – Atheists do not use the First Amendment to deny ANYONE of their right to freedom of religion. In fact, NO ONE’S right to freedom of religion is restricted in this country (excluding human sacrifice and such things, of course).

Not being permitted to put a nativity scene on the lawn of City Hall is not restricting your religious freedom. Please put it on your own lawn instead.  Not being permitted to teach children the Lord’s Prayer or Ten Commandments in school is not restricting your religious freedom. Teach them at home or in church instead.

Whenever I hear claims like this one, I think about the spiritual environment in which I live. There is one street in a small town near mine that I travel on frequently that has eight churches on it – each one a different Christian denomination. On a Sunday, the parking lots are filled to capacity, and I can barely squeeze between the cars parked on the street.

There is a Baptist church on the highway near that town that has a double-sided billboard in front of it. On one side is a scene from the Christian hell, with people burning in flames while demons hover above them. On the other is a close-up of a bloody Christ on the cross, with “SIN” and “SINNERS” scrawled on the wood in blood.

On Friday afternoons, a church group gathers on a busy streetcorner, holding signs with messages about how we all must accept their religion, and handing out pamphlets to people who stop at the traffic light. In another nearby town, a man with a giant Bible on a trailer behind his pickup truck parks in a vacant lot near a traffic light and, regulation-sized Bible in hand, preaches to the people who get caught at the light.

I think of these sorts of claims whenever I see these things, and about how awful it is that all of those unfortunate people are having their religious freedoms restricted.

If you do not believe in God, then you must believe in something else. What?

No, I mustn’t. There’s no need to replace a belief in gods with anything else. It’s kind of like saying “If you shave your head, you must have something else on it. What?”, or “If you have your tonsils taken out, you must have something else put in their place. What?” There’s just nothing there.

I did not begin life with a belief in any gods. I have returned to that state since becoming an adult. There is nothing missing that wasn’t there to begin with.

The belief in God and Christ, promotes; peace, love and hope. Why would this bother you?

Another loaded question. Of course the promotion of peace, love, and hope do not bother me. And I recognize that for many, this belief brings them peace, love, and hope. I just don’t agree that they need that belief to have those things.

In fact, when I took the time to read the Bible from cover to cover, I found many examples of cruelty, hatred, and injustice – so much so that I became convinced that the people who find peace, love, and hope among these pages simply haven’t read them all. Take this quote as a single example out of many, attributed to Christ himself:

“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”  (Matt 10:34)

Odd words to come from someone who is often called the “Prince of Peace.”

I cannot prove the existence of God to you or anyone else. That is where faith comes in.

Just as I do not attempt to change anyone’s religious beliefs in this blog, I also do not ask anyone to prove the existence of any gods, because that’s not what it is about.

I too studied evolution in school and it is plausible. So is creation. When I look around at this planet and see all of the miracles of life that surround us, I cannot help but see a higher power at work. Look at the expressions of love, that animals have for their young. The feelings that a new mother has for a child. A tree on a windy day. Rain. Life. Death.

I appreciate beauty in most things – remember, I’m an artist and a musician.I just don’t automatically attribute those things to a higher power.

For one, I can’t be certain that if things were different than they are that they wouldn’t be as beautiful. If the wind changed the colors of the trees instead of blowing the branches around, would I still think it was beautiful? Aren’t there people who believe, yet dislike all of these things, and see no beauty in them? Why and how does our sense of beauty determine the existence of a deity?

There are too many flaws in reality for me to attribute everything to a perfect creator. Disease, birth defects, using the same passage to eat and breathe through, earthquakes, poison, quicksand, Simon Cowell… a perfect creation would have none of these things. A perfect creator would not have inflicted us with them.

Is it all a random series of events? Amongst all of the chaos, there is order. You just have to be able to “see” it.

There is an order to nature. It isn’t random. Things happen in a certain way. That may suggest that there is a higher power, but it doesn’t give us any evidence of it.

And an important point is often lost here – WHICH higher power is it, then? I have a book beside me on my desk that lists over 2500 deities that were worshipped through history. Many of them are creator gods. If all of reality is really a creation, and the product of a creator, then which one did it? What reason do I have to default to your deity of choice?

it saddens me that people cannot “see” what is around them. When you pass on and you will one day. I hope that you will meet Christ and will be shown all that you have missed.

I’m sorry you’re sad. Please don’t be. There’s a lot that I’m not missing. I have a family who loves me, and friends who love me like family. I have the opportunity to perform on stage and express myself artistically, and make people happy with it. I have music and art and theatre and cinema and poetry and prose and nature and science and philosophy and mythology and history and fiction and fantasy, and I appreciate them all.

I’m not missing much, really. And I don’t feel that I have a need for the things I am missing.

Thanks for your comments, and the thoughts and discussion they have inspired.

27
Dec
09

How are you spending your Sunday? (12/27/09)

(Atheists have Sundays too, we just tend to sleep in. Before I took a hiatus, I made a point to make a post almost every Sunday about how I plan to spend – or just spent – my day.)

It’s the first Sunday after Christmas, so I’ll probably spend some time cleaning up around the house a bit, and playing some of our new videogames with our youngest daughter (I’m really looking forward to trying out Beatles Rock Band!)

Our oldest is visiting with a friend and her family. They are believers, so she’ll probably attend church with them this morning (they may even be there as I type this), and come home afterwards to tell me what happened there.

Yes, you heard correctly – I allow my daughters’ friends to take them to the church of their choice on Sundays (or Saturdays, if that’s when they recognize the sabbath). I think it’s a good experience for them to see what goes on in a church firsthand, and we always have a good discussion about their experience afterwards (even if their experience wasn’t so good).

Usually, their reaction to it is relief that we don’t make them get early and sit through it every Sunday, but our oldest has been pondering the church experience a lot lately. She is particularly concerned about the way that very young children are indoctrinated and told what to think.

And that’s when I was certain that letting them go to church was a good idea.




I am an atheist, a person who does not believe in the existence of any gods.

Many people don't know a lot about atheists, and have questions about them. In this blog, I do my best to answer them, to help build an understanding between atheists and theists.

Do you have a question? You can post it in the comments to any of my blog entries, and I will do my best to answer it in a new entry.